Welcome And Guest Setup

Intro & Outro 0:00

Welcome to Tennessee on Supply Chain Management, where we unpack the drivers shaping today's global supply chain. From innovative ideas to real-world solutions, each episode brings you insights from the leaders charting the course for our discipline. Now here are your hosts.

Ted Stank 0:19

Hello everyone, and welcome to Tennessee on Supply Chain Management. Tom and I can't believe it's season four, episode 11. My name's Ted Stank, one of your co-hosts. Joined today again by my great friend and co-host Tom Goldsby. Tom, how are you doing? Doing well, Ted. Happy to be here. Happy to have you. We're also joined by a very special guest, Dr. John Langley, Professor Emeritus at University of Tennessee, one of the giants upon whose shoulders Tom and I stand in our program today. We're going to be talking to him about 30 years of 3PL research that he's been doing. The 3PL research study that comes out every year, some incredible insights that John has, not only about the 3PL industry, but just about the logistics industry across the sweep of his career as well. John, great to have you with us.

John Langley 1:11

Hey, thanks, Ted, very much. I appreciate you're asking me to be part of the podcast. And it's a real honor to do this. Hopefully I can say some things that are interesting to our audience.

Why The 3PL Study Endures

John Langley 1:20

You know, just to mention this, uh the uh 3PL study, and I do appreciate the involvement of the University of Tennessee. You know, at various points in time you develop a strategy for what you want to do, and uh I thought it was fair to try to identify a good succession plan for study. So Tennessee is working with the study now, and uh hopefully uh everyone will have a chance to read the report that comes out at the CSCMP conference. I was going to mention, though, that the study did commence 30 years ago, and I was doing some consulting services to one of the larger 3PL firms, and we thought it might be interesting and think about 30 years ago, but I said, let's talk about maybe designing a study that could last for a long time and it could keep track of what's going on in the 3PL sector, logistics outsourcing sector, et cetera. And you know, perhaps we can uh get a database together and we can chart this over time. And you know, no one would ever have thought the study would last for 30 years, but it's not only lasting, but it's got, you know, even a new exciting future ahead.

Ted Stank 2:26

I'll tell you something. To have that kind of longitudinal data across 30 years in an industry that has changed so much, uh, you think about technology, you think about the economy, you think about the role that 3PLs play in the overall supply chain, it's gotta be fascinating to look not only at what's happening today, but also to look back across those 30 years.

John Langley 2:47

Yeah, well, you know, one of the things I've always said about the study, well, not always, because in the very beginning it wasn't that obvious, but as we got into it, it became obvious that not only was this a study that included shippers and three PLs, but it also reflected on what's going on in the world of what we now call supply chain management or, you know, whatever the newer term is. Because back in the mid-90s, I would say that we had firmly understood the concept of logistics, and now we were maybe a few years earlier, but you know, it wasn't too much earlier that we began to focus more on supply chain. And this is as much a research study on the evolution of logistics and supply chain, you know, new and improved uh techniques these days. I think it's done a nice job with that.

Ted Stank 3:35

Yeah, I mean, you think about the time that you were starting it, it wasn't all that long past deregulation and companies were still spinning off their own transportation and logistics groups and looking more and more towards specialty firms in the area to kind of manage their movement and storage lengths. And now we just kind of take that for granted now, but uh but it was it was a relatively fresh idea then.

John Langley 4:00

Yes, it was interesting that I was in Philadelphia on one occasion, probably uh maybe in the mid-80s, close to 1990, perhaps, but with a couple of executives from a company that would easily be identified as one of the innovators that kind of helped to move the 3PL concept forward. And we were just walking down the street and one of them mentioned, he said, it, you know, it's really uh we we're now in the logistics business, and he said, I don't really know exactly what that is yet, but it's certainly something that's desired, and we're gonna be among the best in the business, et cetera. So but that just goes with it. I think one of my thoughts over a long period of time is that, you know, let's say the vocabulary typically will precede what we're talking about. I recall the days when, you know, the uh vice presidents of sales became vice president of marketing. You know, it didn't take long to figure out that didn't really know that much about marketing, but if you have the benefit of the vocabulary and terminology, you can grow into that. And I think that that's been a good example in the supply chain as well. Great insight.

Tom Goldsby 5:02

To Ted's point, and just to be factual, this is the 31st annual study. And Ted, I don't know about you, but can you recall doing anything for 31 consecutive years except maybe breathing out and breathing in, but just remarkable consistency. And I regard your study as the go-to resource for not just logistics services and the notion of 3PL shipper relationships, but it's really probably the best chronicling of the logistics industry over those 31 years. I mean, is that what you ever imagined that it would turn into, John?

John Langley 5:41

I think that in the very beginning, it would have been hard to stretch my imagination that far. We have had uh quite a few different organizations that are involved in the study supporting it uh and helping with the research and so forth, and I thank every one of them. I feel too numerous to try to name right now, but that included three PLs, and it also included some consulting firms and other universities. You know, I've been at Penn State and I've been at Georgia Tech. They were a great university to support the study. It was an effort of a number of parties and people and so forth, so I think done a good job with that.

Tom Goldsby 6:17

We are just so thrilled to have some Tennessee Orange on this year's report uh alongside uh NTT data, Penske logistics, and CSCMP. And as you point out, the the official launch of the study this year and every year is at the CSCMP Edge Conference, and I'm really looking forward to participating in that session. And I I think that we're trying to keep the lid on some of the findings, but maybe just in terms of the industry in general, what what are you kind of witnessing?

Risk Management Meets AI Change

Tom Goldsby 6:49

What are some of the big overtures or movements taking place in logistics service arrangements in 2026?

John Langley 6:56

Well, you know, there's a couple of big words these days, and I think one of the most important word is the management of risk because it's all around us. We have, you know, an onslaught of new tools that we have available, whether it's just using a chat GPT for correspondence or whether it's using some of the more advanced elements of artificial intelligence, whatever it happens to be, we have a lot of new things that can help improve our ability to manage our supply chains. And if you just look around at what's going on, whether it's uh global conflict or it's just uh changes in the dynamics between shippers and three PLs, which is a fascinating topic, I think that we have more than our share of risks today. And I really believe that the companies that are going to be able to manage risk are going to be among the winners and so forth. I would also add to that, and I think this is part of risk management. I remember Jack Nicholas was was one time talking to Sergio Garcia, who was having some problems playing golf because he couldn't pull the putter back on the green to get the ball going toward the hull. And uh Nicholas said to him, he said, you know, if you can't change, he said, you're never gonna improve. And I think that was part of the inspiration that got Sergio back in track. But I think in terms of us of the supply chain and the issues we're facing, it really does require change. Yeah, lots of different aspects to that, so I'm not gonna get into it, but there are some good uh models for change management, lots of good examples of where you can improve your business by changing uh more quickly than you might have otherwise.

How Outsourcing Scope Keeps Expanding

Ted Stank 8:28

John, to kind of keep playing on this theme of what you've seen across 30 years of this study, how has the scope of what companies are outsourcing, what they're defining, if you will, as 3PL, how has that changed? And of course, I don't think we can ever have a conversation these days without bringing in the big AI word, right? What kind of role are 3PLs playing in that technology?

John Langley 8:50

If I can um just articulate, you know, what's been going on in the supply chain from year one to uh year 60 or so, that goes back. Back in the day, people purchased what we would call logistics services. They bought them by themselves. They bought transportation separate from warehousing and whatever else they procured, it was an individual buy. Usually price was the driver, and we had regulated environments and so forth. Now we find, and you know, a good example of of this, DHL uh is a good one, uh, Amazon is a good one to take a look at and see how they have positioned themselves to offer just about anything you'd like to do. I would even contend that if you have a concept for a business and you have a wherewithal to kind of fill out that concept with some reasonable costs and so forth, as the owner of the concept, you could take it and find a a provider that would take your concept and implement it and so forth. So what I'm getting to is when you look at supply chains, the assumption that, you know, any company should be doing it all their supply chain activities and processes themselves, that's very limiting because there are companies, and I like to say, you know, there are companies that do this for a living every day, and uh they're doing a better and better and better job. And I almost think that a lot of organizations will get to the point if I really want to be competitive in my marketplace and also want to be careful about what I consider to be our core competencies, there are lots of good reasons why you would go to the commercial sector. Whereas, you know, a long time ago, but it would scare a company to think about doing that. Even I've heard people say, well, I wouldn't outsource that because you know it's such an important thing to our customers. Well, sometimes you can even impress the customers to a higher level if you do that.

Ted Stank 10:42

So you could say, hey, we're great at making this widget, but we're not great at logistics. And so to impress you, customer, we're gonna partner with XYZ 3PL.

Tom Goldsby 10:51

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, and as you mentioned risk management, it's understandable where shippers, you know, manufacturers, distributors, retailers would want to work with very capable 3PLs to help shoulder some of that risk. But it also occurs to me that you know there's a lot of risk imposed on the 3PL, the service providers themselves. Reminds me of our mutual friend Robert Martochenko, who, by the way, a supply chain hall of famer, and I'm seated between two other supply chain hall of famers today. So uh pardon me if I get a little anxious and nervous uh with this. But where I'm going with the question, just to get back to that, is he used to routinely say that someone would call him up and ask, hey, can you dot dot dot fill in the blank as a 3PO? And they would routinely want to please the customer and say, Yeah, sure, we could do that. And I would sometimes receive those calls, things like, hey, can you do multi-compartment temperature controlled LTF? It's like, why? Did you say yes to someone? But you know, there also seems to be those risks that can fall into the hands of the 3PO, and hey, you're working across a big bad world out there. What do you think is incumbent then on the service providers to enter into these business arrangements with their eyes open, I guess, understanding maybe what's a reasonable risk and maybe what's a bridge too far?

John Langley 12:13

Yeah, well, just from the point of view of the relationships that you're talking about here, it's really both parties are fully informed and capable of, you know, looking at new ideas and and that kind of thing. Based on my uh experience with three PLs, but also just in consulting in general, I think that the buyers are becoming much more knowledgeable as to what they really need. But don't ever believe at face value what they tell you they need, because it's like going to the doctor, you know, the doctor's gonna ask you, how are you doing, and you got any problems? But that's just the beginning of his due diligence. But I recall at least a couple of times I I didn't get a consulting assignment because I thought that what the uh potential client was asking for was really not necessary, or it it wasn't the biggest problem they had. And so I let somebody else do that. But once you start inquiring about that, I think today you find that the people are are better informed about what their strategies are. I do have, you know, I've got a great admiration these days for our students coming out of major supply chain universities because they're very well schooled in terms of what's going on. And like everybody, I mean, back when I came out, I was strong in my studies and math and statistics and all that, but I I had no concept of how we'd ever be where we are today with this. Even the young people that are coming out with great knowledge right now, they do have to figure out a plan for themselves to continue to be on top of things because it who knows where we're gonna be in another 40 or 50

Freight Fraud Threats And Readiness

John Langley 13:44

years.

Tom Goldsby 13:44

Well, just another area that's of great intrigue that's also a focal area in the study this year is freight fraud. Uh, an area that we're undertaking some work here at UT, and we were pleased to be able to contribute to uh that portion of the report. And I'll have to admit, it was like, well, it was like reading the crime novel, frankly, to learn about the techniques that are at play today and how difficult it is to try to keep up with these unsavory tactics that are taking place out there. How does an area like freight fraud kind of work its way into the 3PL study as you try to, again, make sure it's a contemporary report year over year?

John Langley 14:23

Yeah, I know that Tennessee is involved in some pretty serious studies on freight fraud. So I think that this this year's inclusion of uh some of that, the findings in our annual 3PL study is going to be a uh starting point for many organizations in terms of, you know, what is freight rod, what are some examples of it, how can we deal with it, identify it, how can we protect ourselves and and so forth. You know, it's it's like being alive these days and being connected via internet and so forth. I think as individuals we're becoming aware almost every day of a new scam that somebody's trying to perpetrate on you, whether it's you know on your email or whatever, and you know, I we could talk about that all day, but you know, you just have to be really, really careful how you do it. But I think some of the examples, um, that that I was able to to hear discussed at the uh supply chain forum in the previous one here just knocked my socks off in terms of you know it was just incredible and it's really, really unfortunate the things that thieves will do to, you know, damage a company.

Tom Goldsby 15:26

You know, the ingenuity at work, right? Uh like the parting shot. I know Ted's heard me say this often in the final class session where I'm just imploring our students to use it for good, not evil, you know, that new knowledge that they absorb in the classroom.

John Langley 15:41

But man, there are some really innovative tactics out there for both kind of routine uh, you know, uh knuckle-bruising sort of uh fraud, and then there's strategic fraud that's uh Well, I think you know the area of fraud can have such disastrous effects that uh I was on a board of directors of a company that was hit by a a scam to close the entire business. They woke up one morning as a business would and found out that nothing worked at all. But they were in a point where about as bad a situation as you could could ask for. But then uh fortunately, they had made, you know, planning for what we would do in the case of this type of thing. And the week and a half before this occurred, they actually had had a run through in terms of what they would do if it came up. It didn't remove all the financial impact of this, but it did allow them to uh get back up and running much more quickly in a confident way than it would have otherwise.

Tom Goldsby 16:37

Well, it is, again, an area of intrigue. And uh when we're hearing the warnings that came out last week uh about how AI literally could take over the world, it's uh it really does kind of raise the the table stakes of the stick service arena and and well beyond, doesn't it?

Ted Stank 16:54

Aaron Powell Yeah, I think one of the things that's even scarier about that is you would often think that it's large, well-organized crime operations that are doing the majority of freight fraud, and that's not necessarily the case. And I think it's because individuals with bad intent can get their hands on such powerful tools today to be able to execute that themselves.

John Langley 17:15

Aaron Powell Yeah, I fully agree with you on that. That's a real threat to a lot of organizations. But I think with proper knowledge and education and training to to know what to do when something happens or before it happens, hopefully. You know, look at the warning signs, et cetera, and uh be prepared

Geopolitics Fuel Costs And Reroutes

John Langley 17:30

for it.

Ted Stank 17:30

Aaron Powell You know, and another very important disruption factor that the 3PL industry continually has to deal with is geopolitical disruption and changing trade lanes and the impact that has not only on global logistics but on domestic logistics, particularly in the area of transportation costs. I was just on the highway today, John. I know you've been traveling too, and I was seeing diesel costs up north of $6 a gallon, regular unleaded fuel north of $4 a gallon, and the impact that's having on our transportation lane. Any insight on that? Any commentary about geopolitics and the impact it's having on our movements?

John Langley 18:10

Yeah. I would say, first of all, as supply chain experts, it's probably better to spend our time focusing on identifying what's going on and figuring out ways to uh mitigate or you know, just make the situation better.

Ted Stank 18:21

Yeah, yeah. I'm not I'm not asking you to comment on the geopolitics of it, just on ways to try to mitigate that.

John Langley 18:28

Yeah, it's got political uh intonations, obviously, but I think from a supply chain point of view, if you look at the entire global economy, you know, it's interconnected to the point where if you change something anywhere, you kind of have at least a little tiny ripple, but maybe a big impact. But when you're talking about needing to reroute not only uh air cargo and trucks and and uh ocean going vessels, and it brings on all sorts of different kinds of remedies you might want to consider, most of which, at least in the short term, will end up in higher prices because you know, when any time you need to change something, but then if you look into the farther future, you you're looking at what's the economic growth that's could be likely on the western coast of Africa, you know, because you got ships coming out of the Middle East, you know, into the Indian Ocean, and now we have to take them around the the uh Horn of Africa, et cetera. So it's you know the implications could be really serious. But yeah, if we anticipate this, you know, one of the uh the companies we were talking with, this an Irish company that manufactures around the world, and they've got uh a lot of manufacturing in the Caribbean, and they said, you know, we're thinking about moving that back to Ireland, not just to bring it home, but because our market is growing quickly in Europe. It's just uh you've got to you know be thinking about it all. That's where this whole thing digital twins and trying to look at, you know, how do we uh anticipate what the problems are gonna be and how we're going to uh react to them and improve our business, keep our customers happy, and so forth.

What Strategic 3PL Partnerships Require

John Langley 20:00

Which leads me to another topic that I just want to mention quickly. It just triggered this thought, and that is we've got some, I think some very interesting commentary in the upcoming 3PL study here, but that is enhancing the relationships between shippers and 3PLs. And one of the things we've taken a close look at would be the the interactions between these organizations, because you know, you don't really have to look too far, unfortunately, to find buyers and sellers that, you know, the way they treat each other, you think they're in combat or something. But I really think for two reasons, it's really important for shippers and three PLs to come together. I think that if they come together and uh share a lot of important information, you find that the the 3PLs will have a better concept as to why, not only what the shipper says they need, but why they need it. A lot of times shippers don't want to hear another alternative, you know, where if you can just have honest discussions about both businesses and even understanding the future growth areas, because if you're a shipper and you take on a strategic partner, let's say, and we do a lot of work on that term strategic, and I I know Kate Batassic has done a lot, a lot of work with the University of Tennessee, and she's kind of the guru on the vested approach. But if you can have that kind of interaction, you can come up with a better approach to serving the shipper. But the second thing I think is really important long-term is is going to be a big factor, is how can the improvement of those relationships also serve to improve the functioning of our entire supply chain? Because if you have a shipper and you have a 3PL and they're both just as happy as clams because they've worked it all out and they have great relationships, but the supply chain is headed in the wrong direction. They've got to figure out how they can be part of the improvement process for the supply chain. Yeah, that's kind of getting out there, but and also I believe over the next ten years, we're gonna see an incredible change in our supply chains. I referred to Amazon earlier, but just look at what they'll do for you. It's like everything. That's the way it's going to go. And a lot of companies aren't used to having somebody else do everything for them.

Ted Stank 22:10

Yeah. I mean, if we looked at it ten years ago, there were inklings that Amazon was going to enter this business. Now they consider themselves a full through third-party logistics provider and can do it. Yeah. Can do it all. You know, it's interesting. First of all, you you invoke Kate Vitassic. Just a little uh note that Kate Vitassik is going to be our guest at the next podcast from the Edge conference in Nashville. And we will be talking about this topic about relationships, particularly between uh shippers and third party logistics providers. Something really interesting. This is probably about 20 years ago, I had an opportunity to sit at a meeting that was uh going on between um several different manufacturers and some of their third-party logistics providers. And over drinks one evening, I was an uninvolved third party, if you will, at this conversation between the vice president of manufacturing and their third-party logistics provider. And the manufacturer was scolding them, saying, We really need you to step out and be our strategic provider and make the investments that we need. And the pushback from the third party logistics exec was we would be more than happy to make that investment and be your strategic provider, but you can't then go out and rebid our business every year for the lowest dollar, you know, to our competitors. And that was really fascinating for me to sit in and just to see that tension, John. And I think that's you know, that's kind of exactly what you're talking.

John Langley 23:32

Yeah, it's interesting because um and I've known Kate forever. You know, when I was on the faculty at the University of Tennessee, she was a graduate student and uh she spent most of her time helping her colleagues get jobs, and and she was just a real go-getter with that. But I collaborated with her, or she collaborated with me last year when we were in one of the earlier stages of looking at some aspects of relationships. And, you know, our research concluded what Kate has known for a long time, and that is that uh a lot of companies will talk about the relationships they have, and they'll use that word strategic. And we've relied on Kate to help us build a list of the characteristics of you know well-structured strategic relationships. And the the news that, you know, provides an opportunity for the future is that most of the time that word strategic is not quite as strategic as you might think. But if you know that much, then you can build on that. And so we're gonna hold that off until you uh see a CMP edge conference coming up and see what we have to say on that.

unknown 24:34

All right.

Reports Sponsors And Where To Meet

Tom Goldsby 24:39

Again, an action-packed report. Uh, we've gotten a sneak peek at the report and uh also the presentation. Go ahead and point out that there will be that official launch of the report at CSCMP Edge on Tuesday, October 6th in the afternoon. I think the early afternoon slide. Looking forward to having a panel, including yourself, myself, some representatives from NTT and Penske as well to provide perspectives. It's always one of those standing room only crowds, John. So uh looking forward to being a part of that this year.

John Langley 25:13

Well, if I can toss one one in here is uh we have a website, very simple, 3plstudy.com. You can get on and download any of the uh past 30 annual reports that can there. No charge for that. We just like to know who's using it.

Tom Goldsby 25:28

Well, John, I was just as as we were preparing for today's podcast, I I was kind of stretching my brain a little bit to think if there was another report that's maybe had such an impact on scholarship. I mean, if you're doing 3PL research for an academic journal, you pretty much have to reference your study as a way to frame the problem. Because it's such, again, it's not just that snapshot in time, but you've got the moving pictures, if you will, of where the industry is is going and where it's been. And then also from a practical standpoint, if you're the shipper, the service provider, and a whole host of other folks. I've used it myself in expert witness situations because it is the go-to reference, I think. So I think you just have to be immensely proud uh of that legacy that you have in this room.

John Langley 26:18

Well, thank you. I was gonna also uh pass along, and you mentioned our among our current sponsors at this point is MTT Data, and they do a great job with you know developing ideas and challenges that we may want to look into and so forth. And and you did mention Penske, but they are about as involved with research topics as as most of you know widely known 3PLs, and you know, they've been very supportive of our study for a long time. And if you read the the uh supply chain press, you know, it's not unusual to find some kind of an article written by someone from Penske on a topic of interest. Absolutely.

Tom Goldsby 26:51

And hey, we're gonna also have a chance to reprise the study at the supply chain forum. Just encourage our friends out there. Right about now is when you need to be reserving your spot at Supply Chain Forum, scheduled for November 10 through 12, and also reserve those hotel rooms, which always go fast for that event. But John, you and I think are gonna get some stage time to talk about a 3PL study there for those who can't make it to the Edge conference next month in Nashville.

Ice Bears Legacy Advice And Closing

Tom Goldsby 27:21

But hey, I know our time is getting short here, and I think we'd be remiss if we didn't ask you about the outlook for the Knoxville Ice Bears. Those of you that don't know, John is part owner of the Ice Bears, and I think your season kicks off October 1617.

John Langley 27:38

1516. Opening night, 25th anniversary of our business, and I've been there since the beginning. Most of our, we have a very small group of owners, but we've been there since the beginning. And uh we'll kick it off with a great big ice bears win on Friday night, and then we have uh a little team from down south coming in to play us on the 16th, always the uh third Saturday in in October in the University of Alabama. But I would say that we invite you all to come out to the ice bears meeting if you're in town at that time, or those those of you that live there. Big things going on with the ice bears uh that um we'll look forward to filling you in when the time is right for that. So you know how you get uh an ice bears patch.

Tom Goldsby 28:23

You know, you always have one right there fixed on your luggage, if I recall. Always traveling. Good conversation starter. Not just a fan, but an owner. Anything you need.

John Langley 28:33

One other thing I just want to mention before we you know conclude in a bit here, but is you know, one of the uh connections that I think is really, really going to work to the benefit of the future study and also hopefully to the uh the practitioners and the students that are involved at the University of Tennessee, is you know, we have great resources at UT in terms of helping to generate ideas. We've always tried to make sure that whatever we do with our study on any given year, that it aligns with what's going on in the business and also challenges that are being faced by companies. So we can even put us closer to large numbers of people at specific times during the year.

Ted Stank 29:14

Hey, John, I don't want to let you go without a little bit of acknowledgement and then a final question as well. Sure. We're talking about anniversaries, right? This is the 31st anniversary of the 3PL study. We've got another, I think, in a couple of years, anniversary coming up that you also have been involved in, and that is, I believe 1998 was the first supply chain forum, and you were uh heavily involved in launching that first forum. So we're two years away from the 30th anniversary of that. And your role as an educator over this time. As a final parting shot, what is your perspective on how the industry has changed and for students what they should be thinking about to become really value-added members of this profession as they leave the university programs that they're in?

John Langley 30:01

Yeah, well, thank you very much. Appreciate you know the nice remarks about that. But yes, we did start the supply chain forum. That was in response to uh a number of people who had uh been, for example, taking our executive programs. And I mentioned a little bit earlier to you, Ted being the Bruce Chair of Excellence holder, uh Harry Bruce was a motivator in terms of wanting to see his alma mater, the University of Tennessee, become a leader in supply chain management. And he was the one that suggested we have a broad range of interactions with uh practitioners and executive programs. That was back in the uh maybe around 1980 or so, but then later on we decided that you know having a an actual formal organization which has now grown beyond any expectations I would have had. You guys have done a great job with it. But it's a great opportunity to uh share the you know the company of of practitioners and students and and so forth, and it's just you know, it's it has accomplished beyond whatever my wild expectations would have been. So you guys have done a great job carrying that torch forward. So I'm glad to have the study and myself involved with what's going on these days.

Ted Stank 31:11

Well, John, we're delighted to have you working with us on a couple of different things. Uh as an emeritus professor, I think it's fantastic to have you still part of the University of Tennessee supply chain team, and we love having you with us on this session today. My guess is that we'll be calling on you sometime in the future as well. I know you and Tom will be reprising. Well, you'll be doing the first session in uh Nashville in a couple of weeks, and then again at the Supply Chain Forum this fall in November 2026. So thank you again for your time. We love having you with us.

Tom Goldsby 31:43

Thank you very much. All my honor to be a part of this. Well, it's a Hall of Fame career, and uh again, just as I said, we were thrilled to have some Orange on the 3PL study again. It's great to have Orange back on you as an emeritus professor uh and engaging in all the things we do here on Rocky Top. But hey, just a bit of a preview, as as Ted said, next podcast we're gonna be recording with Kate Bitasic. We're gonna be celebrating her recognition as this year's Distinguished Service Award winner. She will soon be a supply chain hall of famer. So it'll be great to have her perspectives uh and revisiting the podcast at that time. And uh hopefully we'll see a lot of friends at Edge. Uh, we're gonna be there in force. And uh also uh again, just a final reminder of the supply chain forum, November 10, 11, 12 here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Hope to see you there and then at all times. You can reach us at gsti at utk.edu. And with that, Ted, what do you say we sign on?

Ted Stank 32:41

Absolutely.

Intro & Outro 32:41

See you everybody. We'll talk to you in a few weeks. Thanks for listening to Tennessee on supply chain management. Be sure to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform for more conversations with the leaders of framing the path for practitioners, scholars, and students. Have a question or idea? We'd love to hear from you at gsti at utk.edu. Until next time, listeners.